What’s your background?

I grew up in the Chicago area, in the northern suburbs. I started doing photography when I was in high school, although the first time I picked up a camera was for Girl Scouts – getting the “my camera” badge. I knew early on that I wanted to pursue art in some way, so I went to Northern Illinois University and came out of there with a degree in design and photography. When I left school, I didn’t know which direction I wanted to go. Was it going to be more design? Somebody asked me about that and said to me, “I think you’re more about photo. You don’t talk about designers. You talk about photographers and images you’ve seen.”

Picture This is a labor of love. I’m working right now at Pioneer Press doing production design work. It's not all that creative; it’s more creative problem-solving. I work in the ad department. It feels odd sometimes not to be working in editorial, but it offers a different perspective on the newspaper biz.

In photography I’ve shot pictures, I’ve bought pictures as a photo editor, I’ve sold pictures as a photo agent, I’ve organized exhibitions working at galleries. So, I’ve worn a lot of hats in photography.

How did Picture This get started?

It was a chain of events. In early 1992, I finished a short stint at the AP, which I really enjoyed. But with the exception of a couple of editors, it’s really testosterone city - very male-oriented. All of the staff photographers were male. A lot of the writers were male, and a lot of the freelancers were guys. The primaries had come to town and brought with it a lot of outside photographers. When a woman named Andrea walked in, I felt like a monkey looking into a mirror. I remember thinking, “Oh, look, a woman. That’s somehow familiar to me.” She got the job done just like anyone else, but her style was just not like a guy’s. It was just … hers. It was different somehow. It was female. And I thought to myself, “Man, I’m missing that.” So, I decided to go to that conference (Women in PJ) in Providence, R.I.

a photo of Monica Turner, age 8

Jean LaChat was there. She currently is at the Sun Times. Irene Pullia was there, and she was with Press Publications. The three (of us) attended and were particularly moved when Nancy Lee, then DOP at the New York Times, talked about a project that the Ms. Foundation did called "Get the Picture", (with) female photographers of all shapes, sizes, ages, getting together with girls to introduce them to photography. It was about them owning their images and making a statement with their pictures. And that was a reaction to Carol Gilligan’s work on the nature of the way girls mature, how when they hit adolescence their self-esteem takes a dive. At one point you’re an old girl and the next you’re a young woman. So we reacted to that and thought we could do something like that in Chicago It took us about 11 months, from April of ’92 to March of ’93, to get it all done. I called up the Ms. Foundation and made them tell me absolutely everything about that project. I also had some conversations with Jim Hubbard of "Shooting Back". In the end, the first project was done at the Eisenberg Boys and Girls Club. The director of the club was very excited about us doing something specifically for girls because here was a club where the boys played a lot of sports and the girls were on the sidelines watching the guys play ball.

That first year was huge. We had about 25 girls and 25 female photographers getting together for 12 Saturdays in a row. That’s a long time – a semester. Not every girl or coach could be there every time so we’d set up foursomes. This way if a coach couldn’t make it, that was a way to keep some continuity. If a girl couldn’t make it then she got to hang out with two coaches. That first year Anne Ryan came to shoot with us. So did Nancy Stone (Chicago Tribune), Leasha Overturf, Mary Beth Nolan (Daily Herald), Leslie Atkins (Gary Post-Tribune) some fine art photographers and some amateur photographers. So it was a really nice mix.

While Jean and Irene were key to getting Picture This off the ground, Sheri Jacobs was key in helping establish it as something that would continue. She helped us get a pro bono lawyer so we could file a 501C3 (the best not-for-profit status you can get; considered a public charity). In theory you should be able to take anything you donate to us off your taxes (but consult your accountant).

So Jean and Irene aren’t part of it anymore?

No, but a lot of the women who participated the first year still keep in touch. Jennifer Wolfe has coached kids since then. Wendy Jordan, a portrait photographer from Park Ridge, came back in 2000 and did a summer program with us.

a photo of Nayamka Ward

How did that evolve into Picture This, which is not just for girls?

It didn’t have to go anywhere beyond that first project. It just did. We had some really strong people in our early years and have some really strong people involved now. While the first project was very girl-oriented and made statements, the next year Nancy Gordon decided to lead the project, and gender was not a concern for her. So that’s just how we started including guys. We have no problem with doing another project exclusively for girls. Girls tend to be the majority of kids we work with anyway. There’s more trust when it’s just girls. The parents seem to get it quicker and there’s more focus. There was one girl who got paired with a male coach and the other girls would tease her and say, “You’ve got a crush on him.” And that was disruptive. Eventually we talked about it and how to not let those girls bother her. She got over it and enjoyed working with that photographer.

How is the program broken down?

There are three different types of projects that we support (internal, external and collaborative). We do one main project a year and the rest come when they come. We do internal projects, like the first one. We decide what we want to do, we figure out how to get it done, we try to get people to help us. We totally focus on making sure that project gets done. The external projects are ones where we hear about somebody doing something and they need our help, but they don’t need a lot of our help. For example, this year Gina Grillo did a multicultural kids photography project with some immigrant kids. We gave her some film and loaned her our cameras. The Sonia Shankman Orthogenic School at the University of Chicago is setting up a darkroom, so we donated equipment to them that we had received from people transitioning out of their darkrooms into electronic darkrooms. Then we donated enlargers and other gear to the Chicago Alliance of African American Photographers which is starting some programming at an art center on the south side. So those are examples of three external projects we supported just this year.

And then there are collaborative projects where we get involved with an organization and plan together what we are going to do, each organization taking a piece of the project. We create it together, and Picture This pulls in all the resources needed to get the project done. Examples of these projects include working with Young Chicago Authors, which we did for a couple of years. During the summer they've done journalism projects, and so in 2000, Wendy Jordan led the photojournalism path. Julie Henderson led in 1999. I did a project with the city of Evanston. In 2001, I led a project with the Waukegan Public Library and their literacy coalition there. This was a less unusual project because we worked with adult literacy learners. Even though our specialty is working with kids, we' re interested in working with anyone with little access to the medium. So this was still within our mission.

How many kids participate in your program each year?

There are a couple of girls that were involved with us three years in a row. For all the time we’ve been in existence, maybe we’ve worked with 100 to 125 kids But when you reduce that to individual years, including the kids who return the next year, I’d say we interact with somewhere from 60 to 90 kids over the years.

Are you are still in touch with any of the kids who participated the first year?

A couple of the coaches still keep track of the girls they worked with the first year. I didn’t work with a girl individually that year. I am in touch with some of the girls I’d coached in other years. There’s a girl from our second year named Annice Fisher who went off to the University of Illinois to study psychology, and she wanted to take some photo classes as well (link to interview with her). She was in junior high when she joined the program.

What are some of your more memorable instances since the program started? Is there anything that just blew you away that you’ll never forget?

There are tons. The most recent thing that blew me away was when we were editing pictures with the Marillac kids. We were going through their take, having them mount their photos on construction paper, sliding them into the presentation binder and having them write words to go along with their pictures. They could just title the pictures or describe the circumstances under which they took it, but we wanted info to go along with the picture. Shavontay Turner, who is very prolific – give her paper and she’ll write all over it – we asked her if she’d write the introduction to the presentation book. What she wrote captured it to a T. She was just so proud to be part of our group and what she had done.She had a good time, but understood that it wasn’t always easy to make pictures and not everyone was friendly. But she valued the experience and got exactly what it was about. When you’re working on a Picture This project, you learn something. What it is you don’t always know right away. She was willing to be flexible, meet new people and have a different kind of experience than the usual. And that was really neat to see that reflected in her writing.

Probably one of the first memories I have of being taken aback was when Abigail Foerstner then with the Chicago Tribune came out on a Saturday to interview some of the girls. To preface this, we were also very conscious of race. We realize that we were mostly a bunch of white women, although we have had some black coaches, and these are mostly black girls.

a photo of Khahilah Corey, age 8

So Abigail asked them, “So what did you think when these women came and offered to teach you photography?” And Ebony Black said, “Yeah, we were wondering what these white women were wanting here. But they came in and we did some photography and now Karen’s like my best friend.”

My reply was to ask her about her coach, Leasha, and she said, “Well she’s my other best friend.” It took a third person to dig this out of them but sometimes that’s what it takes.

Another time the race issue came up when a woman on the street yelled at the coaches and the girls accusing the coaches of “taking advantage of those girls.” And, “What are you doing in our neighborhood you bunch of racists.” This one girl, Naya Ward, didn’t really get it and replied to one of the coaches, “I don’t know any racists here.” That was nice to hear about.

One of the other memorable moments for me was when Jackie Runice from a radio program on WGN asked Naya, who worked a lot with photo coaches Anne Ryan and Jennifer Wolfe, what she thought about the program? She responded, “Jennifer and I were taking pictures of this dog Li’l Bit and Jennifer was explaining that we should think about where we’re standing and maybe get down a little lower, like to the dog’s level and be eye-to-eye with the dog. And I just think that if we could keep from stepping on each other and trying to be above each other that the world would be a better place.” Our feeling was that we would never know the fruit of our work. We just hoped we could be a good influence and present a good example of what it is to be positive and have passion about something. For her to say that she got a life lesson out of it was really amazing. We were kind of stunned.

Where are the kids recruited?

We work with other groups. First there was the Boys and Girls Club and then we shared a space with Young Chicago Authors, so we worked with their kids even when there wasn’t a formal project. Somebody turned us onto Marillac House and so we did something with them in 1996, and then I called them up to work with us again last year. They always have such a great attitude, so we called them up and we are doing our current project with them, along with some kids from Latin School. These are examples of internal projects, where we went out and picked groups we wanted to work with.

However, other kids can join in on these projects. If someone had a nephew that wanted to participate, we would definitely allow them to participate. We’d rather go to where the kids are instead of dragging them to us.

Do you have a space?

Not at this time. We want to go to a university. We hope to get some place like DePaul or Loyola to rent us space on their campus. I would like to get a space soon though. I don’t know how far off that is but we’re continuing to do research on it.

Do you sell the work?

The girls own the copyright, but we have the permission from them and their parents to use the pictures. We exhibit them, and if we have the opportunity we will sell them and the girls get a cut, though sales is not emphasized as a goal. Our very first year we sold nothing because we were focusing on encouraging their independence and increasing their self-esteem and giving them voices. We don’t enphasize sales with the kids much because we don’t want them to think their work isn’t worthy if it’s not sold. In fact, that picture “Drunk Old Woman,” Genita didn’t understand why people would come up to her and say, “Oh they really like it, but no one’s buying it.”

That brings me to my next question. What are your short-term and long-term goals for Picture This?

Some of them include increasing our number of board members. The majority of people who have leadership positions in Picture This are photographers, which is okay, but the skills set that photographers have tends to exclude other skills that we also need on the board. We are trying to devise ways to attract people who understand marketing, P.R. or fiscal management and are interested in what we’re trying to do. What we’re doing isn’t just about photography. Photography is just the medium we use to fulfill our mission, which is bridging the gap between people of different backgrounds and encouraging creative expression and self-esteem. So, we are interested in anyone who is into that to be on our board. I take on the broadest amount of responsibilities, and I didn’t know how to do any of this when I started. As important as having skills is the willingness to figure it out.

We’re also looking into gathering a handful of photographers that we know are good photo educators and helping them find ways to do workshops on their own in the public school system or with other groups.

In the short term we’d like to have more exhibitions. We’d like to create more of a community for the volunteers so we can keep them involved after a particular program has come to an end. This year we are meeting quarterly in a program called PhotoTalk, which is targeted toward the photographers. In January we organized a panel discussion on the art of buying photography.

Is Picture This something you want to do indefinitely?

Good question. I’ve thought about that, but actually I look forward to being able to hire a part-time executive director and program coordinator. Plus, while I’m really taken with the program, but I believe that there are other things I need to do besides Picture This. It’s been such a good experience for me to lead this group that I want other people to have that opportunity as well. I think that the group would only benefit from having new leadership, more energized leadership. And while I’m willing to stick around to get this going, I’m trying to help more people take on more leadership roles within Picture This.

How can Photobetty visitors contribute to Picture This?

We are always looking for Chicago area photographers who want to coach. When our programs get started, there’s the opportunity to work with kids and that’s a lot of fun. For those who coach or participate in any way, it’s also a way for them to reconnect to photography. I mean, all day long we shoot for editors or clients, and we’re so concerned with what their needs are that we sometimes forget what photography means to us personally.

We are looking for new board members, as I mentioned, but also advisory board members. Advisory board members don't even need to be local. Photobetty folks who are far away can let us know if there’s a space in their area that could use an exhibition, we’d love to figure out how to do that. We are prepared to travel. We had an exhibition in Canada in our early years and two in Germany more recently.

If you want to do a project in your area, we’d like to help support you in that. Sometimes that’s just giving advice through e-mail, but it can also be, “Yeah, we need some film,” which we have donated to us through manufacturers as well as individuals.

Cash. That’s always a given - or writing a grant. We are interested getting leads for getting in-kind contributions. The kids can use any camera in working condition.... and film. Subscribing to PTPNews is helpful as well. It’s a way to let the other people in the group know that we have an audience that is interested in what we are doing.

Lastly, do you have any advice for beginning photographers?

Surround yourself with people who support what you are trying to do. Don’t bother to ask anyone if you can make it in this business. Nobody can give you that answer. You have to answer that yourself. Don’t even allow someone the opportunity to say, “No,” to you.

drop Karen Kring a line at krkring@aol.com